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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:57 pm 
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:| Given that he's made blanket statements about how quality of talent is low while that's clearly not the case I figured he was probably better off ignored when he takes pot shots like that.

And that's not to say , given a pass, but like .. you can only run your mouth so much before no one cares.

He clearly thinks his shit's the end all be all. And it's good but it's so not.

I mean if someone's got their head so far up their own ass is any amount of firing back even really worth your time? LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:59 pm 
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A lot of creators go off the deep end, and are assholes, but I tend to just ignore it. Frank Millers tirade on occupy Wall Street was pretty crazy, but it didn't change what I thought of his work in the slighest. Still love Sin City, Daredevil, Batman Year One, etc etc.

I think Alan Moore has the right to go off his handle when he feels like it. Will I defend him losing his mind? No. Does he have the right to be angry? Sure, why not? I still think DC screwed him over, and if he wants to call people mental midgets, then let him. I wouldn't defend him, but I wouldn't say he can't say what he wants.

Truthfully there are really two people whose opinions really matter to me in the comic book world, and that's Erik Larsen and Robert Kirkman. Thankfully both are decent people who don't lose their shit on a daily basis. (Ok, and maybe Stan Lee) If Erik decides to one day become a crazy hermit that hits anyone he sees with a stick, I'll still say he was the greatest comic visionary. So what's my point? As long as it is not hurting anyone let them say what they want to say, even if the event that they believed slighted them is real or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Savage Raven wrote:
:| Given that he's made blanket statements about how quality of talent is low while that's clearly not the case I figured he was probably better off ignored when he takes pot shots like that.

And that's not to say , given a pass, but like .. you can only run your mouth so much before no one cares.

He clearly thinks his shit's the end all be all. And it's good but it's so not.

I mean if someone's got their head so far up their own ass is any amount of firing back even really worth your time? LOL


It wasn't Aarons wisest move, just saying he got a point.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:42 pm 
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About Alan's judgement of current comics production as a whole, well it seems to me that he's blissfully unaware of a lot of things that happen in the world of comics. And I do mean "the world". In his latest interview with the BBC, he pointed out that his criticism was mainly directed at the American comic book industry, "which is all that's left these days, effectively".

I'm not sure what he really meant by "all that's left". Maybe he meant that from his point of view as an English language writer - that the American and British market are the only places where he could sell his comic work in its original format (with no translation), and that he doesn't care for the American market and the British market is pretty much of a vagrant lot outside of 2000AD (I'm actually not sure about that - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Pat Mills himself puts out new material in France instead of the British market, so I guess there's a reason for that). Then it would sort of make sense.

But if he did not mean that... The US Comic industry as the only Comic industry "that's left", period? Excuse me, but... French-Belgian comics? Italian comics with their racks of thick-as-a-fist, affordable Dylan Dog, Diabolik and Martin Mystery monthlies...? MANGA...?!?

One of my favorite parts of Moore's work is his use of the whole "ideaspace" concept. That all imaginary creations can meet somewhere in places like the Supremacy, or the Top 10 precinct, or the world of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. But as "League" progresses, I realize that Alan Moore's body of reference is almost exclusively British-American material. French characters Asterix and Ulysses 31, and several manga characters had cameos in Top 10, but I'm pretty sure it was Gene Ha's contribution (in an interview, Gene explained how he took inspiration from Japanese cartoonist Gô Nagai's work to design the robotic cop character, Joe Ten - he had a fair amount of leeway in choosing the visual references used in the book). The earliest "League" books had several references to Jules Verne and French pulp, but that was because Alan was still talking with Jean-Marc Lofficier at the time. While in the latest "League" book, I could only spot *one* reference to something that was not straight from the British-American well (Italian comic villain Diabolik is mentioned in a headline - and that's probably because the movie adaptation was released in GB and the actor playing Diabolik was a British actor).

I've come to accept that Alan's vision of ideaspace is not as universal as it initially sounded when I was first exposed to it. And yeah, some of his public statements have led me to this conclusion. So when he makes sweeping generalizations about the comic industry, I try not to think too much of it. I can understand that Alan's too old to be bothered with stuff he's overlooked all his life. If you are a kid, you can expect your grandpa to show some patience when you tell him all about your collection of Pokemon cards, but you can't expect him to be genuinely interested. Such is life, and you should not love your grandpa less for that.

And that does not change anything to the fact that I find the whole discussion about Before Watchmen to be a bit tedious. Yes, he made a mistake when he signed the contract. Is it a reason to side with DC Comics in the argument? I don't think so. It's like having a friend who made the mistake of falling in love with a slut and got gonorrhea, and telling him "hey, this girl should totally put some salt on your cock, now".

(The hardtalk interview is here - for now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn95a3gGaW0 )


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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:57 am 
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JayWicky wrote:
About Alan's judgement of current comics production as a whole, well it seems to me that he's blissfully unaware of a lot of things that happen in the world of comics. And I do mean "the world". In his latest interview with the BBC, he pointed out that his criticism was mainly directed at the American comic book industry, "which is all that's left these days, effectively".


Oh wow... You know, that is pretty bad especially when One Piece consistently sells millions, shattering sales records with each new book and even outsold Harry Potter (In japan at least :lol: ). I saw where Jim Shooter acknowledged it's success on his blog. He also admitted he didn't read it but he respected anything that could run for 15 years and be so successful.

I didn't realize Alan moore was so far out of touch.. but yer dead on about his league work. It became increasingly more british with each volume to the point where it was kinda hard for me to access all the nods and winks without a wiki.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:16 am 
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JayWicky wrote:
About Alan's judgement of current comics production as a whole, well it seems to me that he's blissfully unaware of a lot of things that happen in the world of comics. And I do mean "the world". In his latest interview with the BBC, he pointed out that his criticism was mainly directed at the American comic book industry, "which is all that's left these days, effectively".

I'm not sure what he really meant by "all that's left". Maybe he meant that from his point of view as an English language writer - that the American and British market are the only places where he could sell his comic work in its original format (with no translation), and that he doesn't care for the American market and the British market is pretty much of a vagrant lot outside of 2000AD (I'm actually not sure about that - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Pat Mills himself puts out new material in France instead of the British market, so I guess there's a reason for that). Then it would sort of make sense.

But if he did not mean that... The US Comic industry as the only Comic industry "that's left", period? Excuse me, but... French-Belgian comics? Italian comics with their racks of thick-as-a-fist, affordable Dylan Dog, Diabolik and Martin Mystery monthlies...? MANGA...?!?

One of my favorite parts of Moore's work is his use of the whole "ideaspace" concept. That all imaginary creations can meet somewhere in places like the Supremacy, or the Top 10 precinct, or the world of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. But as "League" progresses, I realize that Alan Moore's body of reference is almost exclusively British-American material. French characters Asterix and Ulysses 31, and several manga characters had cameos in Top 10, but I'm pretty sure it was Gene Ha's contribution (in an interview, Gene explained how he took inspiration from Japanese cartoonist Gô Nagai's work to design the robotic cop character, Joe Ten - he had a fair amount of leeway in choosing the visual references used in the book). The earliest "League" books had several references to Jules Verne and French pulp, but that was because Alan was still talking with Jean-Marc Lofficier at the time. While in the latest "League" book, I could only spot *one* reference to something that was not straight from the British-American well (Italian comic villain Diabolik is mentioned in a headline - and that's probably because the movie adaptation was released in GB and the actor playing Diabolik was a British actor).

I've come to accept that Alan's vision of ideaspace is not as universal as it initially sounded when I was first exposed to it. And yeah, some of his public statements have led me to this conclusion. So when he makes sweeping generalizations about the comic industry, I try not to think too much of it. I can understand that Alan's too old to be bothered with stuff he's overlooked all his life. If you are a kid, you can expect your grandpa to show some patience when you tell him all about your collection of Pokemon cards, but you can't expect him to be genuinely interested. Such is life, and you should not love your grandpa less for that.

And that does not change anything to the fact that I find the whole discussion about Before Watchmen to be a bit tedious. Yes, he made a mistake when he signed the contract. Is it a reason to side with DC Comics in the argument? I don't think so. It's like having a friend who made the mistake of falling in love with a slut and got gonorrhea, and telling him "hey, this girl should totally put some salt on your cock, now".

(The hardtalk interview is here - for now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn95a3gGaW0 )

Regardless if he only is talking about the American comic book industry, I think he's overly harsh in saying there's no real talent or true creators in the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:05 am 
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Can I just say that this thread bores me to death. I don't give a shit about Alan Moore OR DC. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:21 am 
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That's fair.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:23 am 
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Craig O. wrote:
Can I just say that this thread bores me to death. I don't give a shit about Alan Moore OR DC. :evil:


The one thing DC has done right in the last year is put Capullo on Batman. That book looks so good it's not even funny. Snyder ain't that bad as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen 2 PREVIEW
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:35 am 
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Craig O. wrote:
Can I just say that this thread bores me to death. I don't give a shit about Alan Moore OR DC. :evil:


I've zero interest in the Before Watchmen stuff. It was a finite story and they story was told. Everything we needed to know about the backstory was told in either flashbacks, dialogue or the backups. The whole thing is redundant from a story stand point.

I hate how DC and Marvel have treated people. I'd like to have the resolve to boycott their stuff but I can't. I've grown bored over the years so no longer read pretty much any of their "new" stuff. I cant stop myself picking up old collections though. And as much as I detest what Marvel have done to or not done for the Kirby Estate, damn if I'm not excited to go see Avengers.

Oh well.

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