Image Comics Community

I'd go with the End of the World storyline, personally.

The fallen arc is still my one of my favorite comic book stories. I'd love to see that in an artists edition.

Ok. You're right. I said it wrong. I meant to say captions were popularized to make things look gritty, not created. I'm talking about during the 80s when captions started replacing thought balloons entirely. If the guy is thinking, I'd rather see a thought balloon in general.


My buddy Chris A loves indies but keeps away from superhero stuff. He said he can't get into SD because it doesn't make him think. I once showed him a dozen SD comics to try to get him into it, but he couldn't get into them. He opened my eyes when he showed me how every issue appeared to have fierce mutilation. And I think I took up on that cuz I could see what he was talking about.

Like in SD 168, on pg 4, Malcolm gets his neck bitten and then his head punched clear off; page 6, Malcolm's head is bashed repeatedly into the pavement; pg 6 and 7, evil Dragon is impaled through the head and bashed into the pavement; pg. 16, Dragon's head is blown off; pg. 18, Dragon is fried to death.

I agreed with him when he pointed out how the violence seemed bombastic. He said, "You and I both like a lot of the same stuff. Either we like those classic, zany comics that weren't violent but fun in their stupidity. Or we like the indie stuff that stimulates your brain. I disagree with you on this Dragon stuff though. It just seems repetitive and predictable. I've only read ten of those comics you sent. But after the sixth issue, I already knew the next issue I picked up was gonna have some guy getting his head bashed in or something like that before I bothered to open it. Tell me, is this Larsen fellow capable of writing a nonviolent issue that's intellectually stimulating?"

I said, "Hey, he seems like a cool guy. He's patient and understanding with his fans. And he's a hard worker. And he's putting out the comic the way he wants it, and screw whatever everyone thinks. But I dig what you're saying. His writing doesn't seem to be challenging the reader's brain. And I agree cuz he could do that more."

So me and him, and a few other of my friends, tend to like the zany escapism of the old school comments, or the social commentary of the current indies from Joe Matt or Peter Bagge. Like when I read a Bob Haney Brave and the Bold I'm there to laugh. Or when I check out the characters in a Peter Bagge story and emphasize with the disaffected slacker. I say a comic should either be zany and off the wall, or, if it's serious, then I need to emphasize with the characters. SD is a serious comic that I can't emphasize with enough. People will be talking one page, then the next page abruptly killed, without foreshadowing or anything. I might feel different because I'm a liberal arts major (history).

Hanzo, do you get what I'm saying?

As much as I love Peter Bagge, by the sixth issue of something from him I know that here will be a cranky and cynical guy complaining about minor things in life. An I tell you what, thats why I read it. I read different books for different reasons. I don't want Savage Dragon to be Daniel Clowes Wilson to be Chew to be Preacher.
By the way, I don't see Savage Dragon as a serious book. If you started reading with the Emperor Dragon or Dragon War arcs, you might get the impression. But over its course of 18 years, it has had a lot of funny, silly and yes, zany moments.
And again, I love Bagges work, but as a whole, Savage Dragon has shown way more diversity than Bagges output.

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The first seven or so, followed maybe by the story that culminated in the Dragon having healed all wrong while stranded in a smoke stack (leading to Mighty Man acting as a chiropractor).

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Darin Wagner
La Crosse, WI

Yeah but I think your friend is right on -- if he doesn't like graphic violence, Savage Dragon is not the book for him.

Asking if Erik Larsen is " capable of writing a nonviolent issue that's intellectually stimulating" is like asking if Tom Clancy is capable of writing something other than a military/spy techno-thriller or if JK Rowling is capable of writing something other than a fantasy series -- sure, but why would they want to? That's not their thing -- you go to them because you want that type of work specifically.

And I suppose I'd have to take take issue with your friend saying it's "predictable" and citing "someone will get their head bashed in". If he's predicting major plot points, character actions, the identity of mystery characters like Mighty Man or Star -- ok, I guess it's predictable for him. But saying the book is predictable because he can "predict" that a fight scene will take place is ridiculous. It's like saying Dan Clowes is predictable because you know each of his stories will feature someone who's a social misfit and will feature their sex lives as core factors in the plot. Or like saying Tom Strong is predictable because it'll like feature some tip of the hat to old school science fiction or pulp stories.

A fight scene is an element of a story, not a story in and of itself. Predicting an action comic will have one is about as insightful as predicting a mystery novel will feature a murder or a drama will feature a conversation.

That aside, if you like Erik's book, just like them for what they are -- don't worry if your friend thinks they're "intellectually sitmulating". It's just not the book for him and you don't need his validation on whether the series is worthwhile. Just like what you like and he can do the same.

I'm not sure why you would feel different because you're a liberal arts major; I attended art school for two years and have a degree in corporate communications (a hybrid graphic design and commercial writing degree) -- I don't think it makes me feel any differently than when I was in the military or worked as a utility locator.

True, SD has shown more diversity. That's mainly due to Bagge's own fault. Bagge created his characters before Image was even formed and has produced significantly fewer comics than Erik. I still like the Buddy Bradley comics though. I liked how Buddy was a loner slacker who didn't get along well with his own family, found himself exaggerating the intensity of his real life problems, found out his Miss Right was the social nutcase who had personality problems, and became a normal person in the end. That and many other things about Buddy's stories I could connect with.

If I read superhero comics, it's mostly pre-Frank Miller, Watchmen, Wolverine, and Punisher popularity era. Most of my superhero comics are from the 60s and 70s. And the ones from the 80s I have mostly resemble the zany comics of the previous decades, like West Coast Avengers. If you've read a lot the comics from the 60s and 70s, and even prior to that you'd probably be able to understand why I think SD is serious and much less zany than the old school comics.

Sure, in issues 55-58, when Dragon is in William, and he's trying to fight with the cape on and finds out it's hampering his ability to fight and he wonders how caped heroes like Batman do it, that's pretty funny. Or in issue 88, when Dragon is beating the living crap out of Thor with his own hammer in 88. Or in issue 105, when Dragon's in Rock's diner, talking with the comic book guy about how Marvel and DC lack creativity and how it's frustrating to read an important even in a comic only to have some other dude kill it off a few months later. That's pretty cool. But when Dart gets her head punched out by accident and at the end Dragon says, "He killed her, Sara. Dart's dead." and he ends it like that, that sort of lacks the zanyness and becomes serious and moody.

The same could be said for what I like to call the Search for Jennifer Saga. Dragon spends issue after issue searching for her, getting the reader amped up for what will happen when Dragon finds her, then we find out his daughter killed Jennifer when Glum ruled the world, and his kid exits with Glum. I remember thinking, "What the hell, Larsen? You get us all excited for Dragon to find Jennifer then you end the search on a fizzle and on a moody note. Who are you John Byrne?" Because that's exactly the type of stuff Byrne does. He gets people excited for some interesting plot development, then ends things with a abruptly with a fizzle, as if it was never important. And Erik seems to do the occasional Byrne with SD.

I'm not saying SD should be more like Clowes or Buddy Bradley stories. But give me more to think about. There seems to be a gruesome fight in every issue and a lot of it seems unnecessary. I like the fight in the diner in 106, but it wasn't necessary. I would have preferred for Dragon to keep talking and discussing. The same with issue 106. If that issue had been a comedy without fighting, that would have been more interesting. But I guess my biggest peeve is those villains in those stories didn't add anything to the Dragon storyline, and seemed to be unnecessarily thrown in.

I apologize if I appear to be going around in circles. I just would like to see a Dragon issue where everything is mellow, relax, non-violent. When I used to lurk here, there was a dude called Paul John Little and he said that liberal arts majors tend to be more critical of the stories we read, since he was one like me. Where is that guy? I admired his frank, brutally honest take on the comic book industry. Where is B Clay Moore? Where is rentawebguy?

As long as you keep bugging Bagge about writing a issue of Hate where Bradly punches somebody's head off, everything fine.
That was a joke. But I think you got that, being an art major and all.

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One of the things I really liked about Dragon visually was that he wore a standard police uniform. It was always getting ripped to shreds, but I liked the shots where his shirt was torn up but he still had the tie on. The juxtaposition between a bizarre looking character wearing a rather common outfit (common if you live in some neighborhoods, I guess) was something distinctive, I felt. Malcolm lacks that quality. I'd like to see Malcolm wear some kind of uniform. I don't care if it's a boy scout uniform (although, I suppose he's too old for that now so forget that) or an Air Force private's uniform. Maybe he could be a fireman? I dunno. This is just my two cents on the matter. Erik's gonna do what Erik's gonna do and I realize that.

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Darin Wagner
La Crosse, WI

I liked Dragon and Malcolm in plain ol' hoodies, t-shirts, jeans and Chucks for the same reason -- you have a very "Joe Blow" look on a unusual looking character. It's a great contrast.