Dave Busters wrote:
I just checked out some drawing books from the library and I'm thinking about giving the cartoonist gig a shot. I'll become decent at drawing, make a few comics, quit that, and then make my living selling my art for cash. It sounds like it's better than this dismal 9 to 5 crap I gotta do to put food on the table.
There's just one little problem -- comics is like the acting or music professions, only without nearly the amount of money for the rare success stories. What you're saying is similar to someone saying, "I'll get a book from the library on playing guitar, write a couple hits songs, and make a living playing shows" or "I'll take a couple acting classes, get cast in a few TV shows and make a living starring in movies". It's not nearly that easy.
Comics is like movies and music in one huge way -- the amount of people that want to work in the field is hugely disproportionate to the number of jobs available. There are guys who live, eat, breathe and sleep this medium and they can't make a go out of it. I think you have unrealistic expectations if you think it's as simple as practicing a little, getting hired right off the bat by some big company and rolling the the dough.
Do yourself a favor and go on to Deviant Art's website --
http://www.deviantart.com -- and look at all the incredibly talented artists out there in the world and realize that the vast majority aren't getting Big Two work. Comics doesn't pay well for most of the people out there who aren't working for Marvel or DC. The rare exceptions are guys like Erik Larsen who have built a name and fanbase for himself over many years and the even rarer exceptions like Robert Kirkman, Jeff Smith or that Scott Pilgrim guy who just manage to tap into the zeitgeist at the time. And they all have something in common -- they love this medium enough to stick through years and years of making jack-shit and are the lucky and talented few who managed to make a really nice living off of it.
Dave Busters wrote:
Is there any way to just say it's good just the way it is and fool people?
Wow, your strong sense of ethics and personal integrity is an inspiration to us all.
Unlike a lot of other crafts, commercial art is one of those fields where people can tell something is shit right off the bat -- all you need to do is look. Sure, you'll get a guy like Rob Liefeld or whoever that either manage to tap into the zeitgeist of the industry or have some uncommon charm to their art, but they're fairly rare individuals.
You can fool a few rubes here and there but I doubt you'll ever fool enough to make any kind of living off of it.
Dave Busters wrote:
I don't know if I'll ever spend 500 bucks on commissioned art. But I'll be damned if I didn't consider becoming a cartoonist serious thought. When I clicked that link and saw someone had bid $500 I nearly spit out my orange juice.
That's actually not even really that impressive -- guys like Art Adams and John Byrne can charge thousands of dollars for a commission. And if that cover Erik was selling was used for an issue of Spider-Man or Batman instead of WildCATs? It would have sold for a bit more, believe me. Jim Lee can sell stuff for over $10,000 and does so all the time. I've seen John Byrne covers for Uncanny X-Men get into the $30,000 range. $600 is the tip of the iceberg...
But there's the rub -- the reason anyone wants to pay anything for their art is because they're huge names in the business. Imagine what you'd get if you had a guitar that Jimi Hendrix used if you put it up for auction -- now imagine what you'd get for a guitar used by a local band from your hometown. People pay big money for proven talent, not for nobodys.
Erik Larsen can command $600 for a piece of art because he's got a name in this business. He was a hugely popular Spider-Man artist, an Image co-founder, created a character that has been used in cartoon shows and toy lines... some dude who hasn't done anything in comics except draw a few issues of a few random comics isn't going to get too much for a piece of art.
Honestly, a no-name talent is lucky to get $50 to $100 for a piece of art on any kind of consistent basis. There's no shortage of really good artists out there -- look no further than Caio's thread. The guy's amazing -- but I've never heard of him except on this forum. If he's not gettign regular high-profile work -- what are the odds you will on a whim?
Dave Busters wrote:
Isn't it all about confidence really? Art is subjective.
It is subjective but confidence isn't going to help you if your art is awful (or perceived awful by the majority of people). Comics isn't like performance art or fine art -- editors and fans can look at your stuff and know in about 10 seconds whether they want to hire or buy your work. There are a lot of people in the business who are really good cartoonists but their styles don't fit into what the market is looking for.
Dave Busters wrote:
How can you define talent?
It's tough but unimportant, really.
Talent is a vague term -- if you want to make money, you have to define commercial appeal, and that's a lot easier. Look at the talent selling books and art out there and then look at your own work. Does it measure up? Why spend $600 on a Dave Busters piece of art if I can get an Erik Larsen cover for the same money? It's very competitive out there and there's no great demand for new artists unless they're phenomenal one-of-a-kind talents -- there's plenty of good but unremarkable guys out there.
Dave Busters wrote:
Did those guys get where they are by shining a lot of butts or by sleeping with the bosses daughter? What do you mean by paid their dues?
It means doing a shitload of work for very little money for a long, long time until you "hit the lottery" and are one of the rare people people who get noticed by a publisher than can pay you a good rate. It takes Jim Lee about 12 hours to do one full page of pencils -- your time may vary but it tends to be the industry standard -- a page a day. Imagine working a 8 to 12 hour job to pay your bills, then coming home and working another 6 - 8 hours to draw a single comic book page -- now imagine doing that for years for very little money.
Again, it's like the music biz -- the big bands like U2 or Metallica get millions of dollars while the little local bands are lucky to make a few hundred bucks for a show. You've got to be willing to put in years of making nothing just for a chance at making a middle-class income as a comicbook artist. It's tough out there.
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